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I finally got a chance to play a bunch of Martin guitars at a local music store, and the main thought I had is "what's the big deal?" It seems Martin is the guitar to buy for production built, but I was really surprised at how plain they sounded. The playability was nothing special. The sound was ok, although the strings were dead so that accounts for some. The workmanship was clean, but nothing like the guitars seen here on the OLF. I guess I was expecting to pick up the guitar and think WOW, this sounds great... The best sounding one of the bunch was an OM style for about $800 new. I've been thinking about selling my Gurian to buy a new acoustic w/pickup, but after this weekend, I may hang on to it.

What style (not brands) do you think is best for finger picking? I may sell my Gurian and then save a few more coins to buy a guitar here. I may try building a steelstring someday, but for now it's all classical. I will say the Gurian is one of the easiest playing guitars I've ever played, but I'd like to buy a finger-picking style guitar. I like to play a lot of Chet Atkins when I'm not playing classical, and would like an acoustic for that. Any recommendations?

Cheers!

John    

most finger pickers buying factory go for a medium sized body such as a taylor grand auditorium or grand concert, i.e., the 12 or 14 sized body, and roughly equivalent in size to a 000 or 00 martin, with a slightly wider neck.

taylors are probably the most common factory guitar among finger pickers. and if you can't find one with the wider neck in your area taylor will make it up for you at no extra charge.

John I think either an OM or a nice 12 fret 000 with cutaway if you need easier access to the higher frets. I would definatly save the extra bucks and buy from one of our OLF members. Lot's of good builders right here!

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The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I agree...for an "off the rack" a Taylor would get my $$...I've owned several of them and they were all fine...but otherwise, take your pick from the guys on the forum here, and you can't go wrong!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Last year, I decided to build the steel string acoustic I wanted because I couldn't find what I was looking for. I usually play classicals, so I like a wide nut. I built the guitar to have a medium-sized box, a cutaway, and a 2" wide nut. Used a great piece of bearclaw sitka for the top and claro walnut for the back/sides. I thought it sounded pretty good after stringing it up, but I gotta admit that now, about a year after completing it, it is really starting to sound nice.

As for Martins -- I played a Martin a few months ago that sounded better than it had any rights to sound. It was a DXM, which is Martin's cheapest dreadnaught, I believe. I was stunned at how good it sounded. I've played D-28s that didn't sound as good as that under-$500 model did. Go figure.

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38641.6828009259

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Live to Play, Play to Live

I love Martins....at least some of them. I can usually go to my local Guitar Center and play several, and usually there's at least one that stands out above everything else in the shop. The Taylors can't compare. Don't get me wrong, I like Taylors ok, nothing wrong with them, except they all sound the same to me. No warmth. Martins OTOH, usually are warmer sounding and can go well into the "great" sounding level on occasion. Especially their "Vintage Series" models.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I think it is like anything. If you build a bazillion guitars -- even on a factory line -- a few of them will be spectacular, and a few will be duds.

Every Martin I have owned or played has been "ok" but I suspect that I haven't laid hands on any of the really really good ones.

Taylor by contrast always seems consistant to me. Maybe not GREAT - blow everyone else out of the water beyond fantastic. But pretty good for the money.

Just MHO.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Personally I would hold onto the Gurian. I really like way they age. By the way speaking of Classicals did you know that Thomas Humphreys started out working for Michael Gurian?

In general the Gurians are well made but I would also agree that they are very easy to play.

If your goal is to eventually switch to steel string construction I would continue on the path you are on by developing your skills building classicals and then rather than buying a fingerstyle guitar, building one of your own.

Another option is that if you are thinking of building a steel string in the near future buying a 00, 000 or OM kit from John Hall of Blues Creek as he can supply it as finished or raw as you are ready to build or going with one of Stew-Macs kits as they also very good.

For less than you would spend on a Martin, Taylor or whatever fingerstyle guitar you could end up with one that you built to exactly what you want.

Why not find a good steel string builder here that would like a nice classical guitar but has never built one, someone in the reverse position to you, and do a swap?

I didn't know Thomas Humphrey built for Gurian. That's pretty interesting. I don't think Michael Gurian ever built classicals, or at least I never saw one, unlike T.H. who has built some very nice classicals. The main reason I'm thinking about selling the Gurian is because it never gets played. I play a ton of classical, but the Gurian has such a narrow neck, it makes it a little harder to play finger-style anything. Also, the Gurian really shines when played with a pick. For finger-style, I'm thinking there's better guitars out there.

I already bought the OLF SJ mold and bending form from John Hall, and I have plenty of wood lying around to build a SS, I just haven't done it yet. For now I'm focusing on classical--plus my building time has been drastically reduced for a little while until work slows down a bit, so I'm just thinking I'll buy one for the short term. Also, I'd like to have at least one good guitar to play and use for comparison once I do start to build SS.

Cheers!

John

Hi Paul,

Your comment, while quite valid, made me laugh because all I can think is I can barely give guitars away for free to family much less have a valid trade. I'm thinking my guitars might be worth a box of scrap wood from some of the builders around here. I think many would be sorely disappointed... but it is a good idea.

Cheers!

John

I too, built a wide neck because I play classical, and can't get used to thin necks. Others will probably find it a bit of a handful and you'll be constantly explaining.I compromised a little at 1 25/32"
   Michael, that Martin DXM employ the A frame bracing.I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Buy an Australian Guitar John!!!!
      They are the best ones!!

   Regards and good luck, KiwiCraig

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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[QUOTE=KiwiCraig]
   Michael, that Martin DXM employ the A frame bracing.I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I've read that the DXM's bracing is different, but I didn't know exactly what it was. Tell you what, though, the guitar had what I consider to be the archetypal dreadnaught sound -- like Paul Simon's guitar on Mrs. Robinson, for example. So if Martin's getting that kind of sound with an A frame pattern, seems to me it bears some closer investigation.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

I'd love a good Australian guitar! Do you think you could somehow arrange for a Smallman or Redgate as trade for my Gurian?    I think it's over a 10 year wait for a Redgate, and he only makes 10-12 a year.

Cheers!

John

Michael Gurian's shop built a little of everything. At that time (early 70's) there were a bunch of builders on the New York scene. Jimmy d'Aquisto, Ken Parker, Michael Gurian, Eugene Clark, Manuel Velazquez (off and on), Dan Armstrong (Kent Armstrong's dad), John Monteleone and others were all building and/or repairing guitars in New York.

I was building part time at that time while studying music composition (I went to Julliard and other schools) and I would stop by those shops to hang out and observe as much as possible. At that time builders like Ken Parker (who worked at Ponte's music repairing guitars) was building Archtops but today is known for his chambered electric "Fly" guitars.

Tom Humphrey said that when he started at Gurian's shop he was told to build a batch of 20 or so classical guitars and then switch and make some dreads... (!!!). He said that that was Michael Gurian's approach and it helped him to quickly get proficient at building in batches and has refered to it as boot camp for becoming a professional luthier.

Today Tom still builds his own in batches of 6 of which one guitar will come out sounding better than the others. He keeps that one and then uses it as the standard that he then builds the next batch against.

Michael isn't the Martin DXM a plastic laminate body or am I thinking of the wrong model?

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Hey Bob--are you hinting that you've got some really zooty plastic for sale, too?

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

To my ears, none of the Martins sound close to what I build until you get into the models with scalloped braces (which they don't have on most Martins you pull off the shelf). The Martin HD-28 is a good example of what a quality dread should sound like. The Martins without scalloped bracing are horribly over-braced, and it really impairs the sound.

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Hey Bob--are you hinting that you've got some really zooty plastic for sale, too?[/QUOTE]
Yup! Great stuff left over from my countertop making days. Absolutely 0 runout.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I've got four Martin guitars three pre-war, 00-18, 00-28 and a rare OM 28 (all from the 30s) also a 1963 00-18. I would never consider buying a post 1969 Martin the sound is just not the "Martin Sound" anymore. The move from North Street to Sycamore Street seems to have heralded the end of the golden era. I think the current production Taylor and Larivee guitars sound better.

By the way, the 1963 00-18 has non scalloped braces and I think has the best sound of all of them.

But I'd just love a 30's Stella.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Bobc] [QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Hey Bob--are you hinting that you've got some really zooty plastic for sale, too?[/QUOTE]
Yup! Great stuff left over from my countertop making days. Absolutely 0 runout. [/QUOTE]



Probably a number of one-piece backs, too, right?

SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

One piece sides too.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

John, you might think of trading your Gurian for a commission. I'm sure there are several people here that would be up for something like that.

I agree with Todd the big deal is the history and pre war Martins in perticular and a good bit of 20's & 50's Martin's as well. And if you ever get the chance to play one that has been through a custom shop, you will notice the diff instantly. I to, think That Taylor's and Alverez Yairi's are among the the best off the production line as far as set-up. Martin's production line guitars " that I have had experance with" tend to have uneeded neck relief imo that makes them play a bit firmer than I like.